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Post by Josh on Jun 15, 2007 7:15:43 GMT -8
hm, i suppose that's true. it's still handy, despite the risk.
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Post by Daos on Jul 16, 2007 18:37:14 GMT -8
I had forgotten about this in all the craziness of losing my internet connection and all.
I'll probably playtest these rules in the next campaign, assuming we have a mage PC. Although I might make a mage NPC for the party in the event there isn't, just as a chance to test them out.
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Derk
Gamer
Level 1
Posts: 145
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Post by Derk on May 4, 2009 15:03:41 GMT -8
I know this topic was abandoned a looong time ago, but a friend of mine is interested in eventually joining the campaign as a wizard/thief and, thus, this is relative to our interests. I was going to suggest that her character ought to know Find Familiar, but then I realized that, as it is, familiars incurred a LOT of risk for little more than some extra espionage capabilities. I'm glad I noticed this thread, because I was going to outright tell her not to pursue a familiar. Level 2 - Find Familiar Level 4 - See through its eyes Level 6 - Cast touch spells via familiar Level 8 - Familiar gains a magical ability I think this is a pretty good progression. I wouldn't be so concerned with a "combat-ready" familiar as much as having one that wasn't in constant danger of dying. So if I were to make a wizard, I'd think of the magical ability as an escape mechanism rather than an aggressive power to be used in direct combat. Maybe it could be about 2nd level, as Keith suggested. A rat or bat might scare away an adversary, while a skunk could conjure up a stinking cloud. Invisibility, glitterdust, blur, fog cloud, darkness, mirror image and other such spells would allow a familiar to escape a hostile foe or to simply aid his master. Most of the spells would therefore be relatively passive, something that could help ensure the familiar's survival without the complications of trying to turn it into a melee combatant. Or, for one offensive option, an animal that typically travels in groups might call for help from its own species with a summon swarm spell. Those are just my ideas. Basically, I'm trying to suggest that a familiar could be made more useful and less likely to die, without turning it into some kind of overpowered monster. And by the time a wizard hits level 8, having vicarious access an extra 2nd-level spell isn't really that outrageous, anyway. By the way, I really like the idea of the familiar being able to talk. Maybe that could become possible at level 3? ((EDIT:)) Haha, it just occurred to me that Feca Pent already seems to have a familiar. So what did you decide upon?
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Post by Daos on May 4, 2009 23:49:51 GMT -8
Heh, heh. Yeah, the last post on this thread before yours was in the summer of '07. We had a player (Josh) try out this system and it seemed to work out all right. We haven't had any players take Wizard since then, though, so there's been no further testing.
Right, that's what I was going for. Some nice middle ground between the 2E and 3E version. Something that wasn't just a huge liability but not a giant boon in combat, either.
Yeah, either defensive or perhaps a utility spell. The one test we had with Josh's mage was a bat. He didn't make it to level 8 before the game ended, but I was thinking his ability would be a sonar blast that temporary deafens the enemies, some kind of vampiric bite that would heal a very small amount of damage to the caster, invisibility, or something like that. (Actually, he was a Diviner, so I probably would have found some way to work that into it.)
Talking was a feature I gave familiars, although Josh decided his familiar wouldn't speak to anyone but his character. *shrugs*
He mostly used the bat for spying and scouting. When combat would start, he would have it fly somewhere safe until it was over. Otherwise, it would perch on his shoulder or something. I don't remember him ever casting a touch spell through it, but he did use it a LOT for scrying.
Hopefully I'll be able to test it further in the future, with different animals and see what works and what doesn't.
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Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
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Post by Shannon on Oct 18, 2009 20:28:32 GMT -8
I see that this thread is old, and I seem to recall that David has since limited familiars to mages only (so sad :-( ), but, as the bard who had the familiar, I thought I'd chime in.
I only chose the spell because when it came time to chose Viarra's spells, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't really understand the whole consept of only being able to know certain spells and I didn't think that a familar was a one time thing. I honestly don't know what I really though, as I was trying to absorb a lot of information at once.
However, in the end, it was a good fit for that particular character. Viarra was extremely showy, and what's more showy than a pet? Her job was to attract attention and in this particular setting, a pet attracts attention.
That being said, just because something doesn't blatantly scream "COMBAT SPELL" doesn't mean it can't become one. Though it was a huge risk, I seem to recall using the familar at least once or twice in combat. It also had the additional advantage of being able to scout.
In the end, through my own inexperience with the rules systems, playing me playing Viarra was a lot like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Also when I rolled for her spells, I prioritized looking for or rolling for spells that could be used for entertainment instead of combat. I found myself a lot of times attempting to find combat applications for spells that didn't have obvious combat application, and this wasn't any exception.
Again, just my two cents, and I do realize that this thread is very old. However, I thought David might find my take on familiars something to think about.
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Post by Daos on Oct 18, 2009 20:59:45 GMT -8
Ah, if someone playing a bard wanted to have a familiar, I'd probably let them take one, too. I try to be flexible with the rules when I can be.
You know...I'm not sure I remember what Viarra's familiar was. Was it a snake? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
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Post by Shannon on Oct 18, 2009 21:27:07 GMT -8
An Owl named Fluffy. Or Spot. Well, one was her horse, the other was her bird. Not sure which was which.
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Post by Daos on Oct 18, 2009 21:47:14 GMT -8
Oh, that's right! Fluffy was the horse, and Spot was the Owl.
I wonder who had the snake then? Huh?
Oh, I remember. That was Keith in Ice's game, I think.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I agree, sometimes thinking outside the box can turn an utility into a weapon, or vice versa. That was something I always liked about you back when you played Viarra. It helps keep me on my toes as a DM, too!
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