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Post by Ezeze on Mar 28, 2018 8:18:43 GMT -8
Yes. I don't think anyone else takes an hour to go to the bathroom.
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Post by Daos on Mar 28, 2018 8:43:57 GMT -8
An hour? Where are you seeing that? She was gone for half an hour. Are you thinking of Ryan? Because it takes him 50 minutes to replenish all of his spells.
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 28, 2018 9:59:19 GMT -8
Was operating under the assumption that it was the same as 3.5 and 4th ed, where it takes an hour of prayer, meditation or studying a spellbook to prepare spells.
After some hunting I can't find specific rules in the 2nd ed book that say how long memorizing spells takes.
The fact that memorizing her spells takes half an hour, rather than a full hour, doesn't make the fact that she disappears in the morning, and in this case just happened to have the spell book, and just happens to be ready to hand it over now, less weird.
Presumably it's half an hour in addition to her other toileting, right? Ladonna has not developed a way to avoid using the bathroom? (That would be an even weirder secret.)
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Post by Daos on Mar 28, 2018 10:15:40 GMT -8
In 2E, it's in the PHB in Chapter 7 (Magic), page 81: This means that Johannas Barnsley in my Octhania game (level 7 Druid), if he were to replace all of his spells, it would take over 5 hours. In any case, I just want to point out that I can't control or dictate how your characters think or act. But you should consider the behavior you are encouraging, or rather discouraging, by taking this route. If you all want to become suspicious of Ladonna specifically whenever she casts a Sleep spell, then odds are she is going to stop doing that. Even if the party is in dire need. All of the evidence you keep citing that something is up is a result of Ladonna trying to help the party. Thus, the lesson to take away here is Ladonna should stop helping the party. I spoke with Horizon privately just now. She's on her way to class, so won't be able to post until this evening, but she asked me to remove the part of her post where Ladonna hands over the spellbook. She isn't going to risk that now. Consequently, Lillian, Theron and Ryan will not be able to access the spells within. Which is the very scenario I was trying to avoid, but I can't blame her now for making that decision. But now there's no reason to be suspicious about her bathroom activity. So problem solved, I suppose.
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 28, 2018 10:54:56 GMT -8
Consequently, Lillian, Theron and Ryan will not be able to access the spells within. Which is the very scenario I was trying to avoid, but I can't blame her now for making that decision. Which is why I also offered an alternative. Just swap the spell book out with one of the ones in Jherek's backpack when no one is looking. Be like "yeah, it's always been there." Presumably someone, at some point, will take a look at those books. Probably Garnet. Especially if we are going slowly over the next few days because so many of our fellows are sick and tired. So it delays Lillian, Theron and Ryan getting access but doesn't stop it entirely - and Ladonna gets to keep her secret. In fairness, even Katya figuring out that Ladonna is a caster is not the worst thing that could happen. It's probably going to happen eventually anyway; higher level spells are not nearly so subtle as the lower level ones and the longer the two adventure together the more opportunity for a slip up. Katya would keep her secret. It'd only be, like, the 3rd most dangerous secret she is keeping.
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Post by Daos on Mar 28, 2018 11:19:42 GMT -8
If Ladonna had turned the spellbook over to the party, in front of everyone, as she had originally planned, then Ryan would have most likely claimed it. He would have copied whatever spells he wanted, and probably kept it in his pack. As the party traveled back home, both Lillian and Theron would have opportunities to sneak it out and copy it, as well--probably during their night shifts at camp. They would know where to find it, because Ladonna would have turned it over in front of them.
On the other hand, if Lillian just secretly slips it into Jherek's pack, probably nobody will even notice until after the party returns to Buho. At which point, Ryan will likely claim it and copy it. Lillian and Theron, however, won't have a chance to look at it after that without arousing suspicion. Unless they break into Ryan's house and steal it or something. I mean, it's not impossible they might find a way to get their hands on it. It just becomes very difficult and dangerous for them.
But why only Ladonna? Following that logic, shouldn't all of you go ahead and spill your secrets to the rest of the party now, including Katya? If they're going to come out sooner or later...
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 28, 2018 11:22:10 GMT -8
But why only Ladonna? Following that logic, shouldn't all of you go ahead and spill your secrets to the rest of the party now, including Katya? If they're going to come out sooner or later... I mean, yeah? Finding a dramatic moment to reveal Katya's holy powers was one of my stated goals for the adventure. What fun is a secret that stays a secret forever?
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Post by Daos on Mar 28, 2018 11:25:27 GMT -8
Yes, exactly. Bingo.
It wouldn't be very fun if the other PCs just deduced it on their own using very nebulous evidence.
Maybe Horizon wants to reveal her secret during a proper dramatic moment? Why rob her of that thunder?
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 28, 2018 11:34:31 GMT -8
Yes, exactly. Bingo. It wouldn't be very fun if the other PCs just deduced it on their own using very nebulous evidence. Maybe Horizon wants to reveal her secret during a proper dramatic moment? Why rob her of that thunder? I know! How dick would it be of me to just deduce that something was wrong, as opposed to telling her that she is outing herself and giving her the opportunity to reserve her thunder for a different time? It's a good thing I am not a dick and instead asked; Are you sure you don't want to be sneakier about it?
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Post by HorizonsDream on Mar 28, 2018 18:18:52 GMT -8
Okay, wow. I've been busy, so aside from limited info I pasted along to Daos on what to do with my apparently extremely problematic post, I haven't had a chance to read all of this until just now.
I ultimately rejected your alternative mostly because I think it would look just as suspicious as the bathroom thing if Ladonna started to go through Jherek's stuff.
Yes, why only Ladonna? Theorn has been mysteriously healed without a second thought, Theorn has cast a spell, and even Lillian has cast spells, but only Ladonna has been singled out as acting suspiciously throughout this whole adventure so far. Why do you want your characters to know her secret so badly? Why is it so important for them to know her secret?
The fact of the matter is that I know that Ladonna isn't going to be able to keep the secret forever. I never planned on her keeping the secret forever either. Ladonna will reveal her secret when the time is right. Eventually they will know that she is a mage. They don't need to know she is a mage right now. Not only that, but if they start making their suspicions known, Ladonna is going to stop helping the party. Daos is right about that. She doesn't know what the party is going to do with that secret. She isn't exactly the most trusting of people, so she is going to do everything in her power to lower suspicions which means that the party is going to ultimately suffer MORE because she isn't helping out as much.
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Post by GravityEmblem on Mar 29, 2018 3:24:59 GMT -8
I'm with Horizons on this one. Everyone already knows her secret OOC, and it doesn't seem fair to me to try to root out IC clues of it.
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 29, 2018 5:09:27 GMT -8
This has gotten way more emotional than I thought it would. Let's take a step back, yeah? HorizonsDream - you said you feel singled out. Why is that?
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Post by HorizonsDream on Mar 29, 2018 16:23:47 GMT -8
I think I pointed out why I felt singled out in my last post.
I'm not really sure how else to put it other than the fact that all of these other people are casting spells or have spell like abilities that they are using, and everyone turns a blind eye to it. The moment Ladonna does it, all eyes are on her.
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Post by Ezeze on Mar 29, 2018 17:37:00 GMT -8
I think I pointed out why I felt singled out in my last post. I'm not really sure how else to put it other than the fact that all of these other people are casting spells or have spell like abilities that they are using, and everyone turns a blind eye to it. The moment Ladonna does it, all eyes are on her. Okay. I'm sorry you feel that way. I am going to defend myself, though, and point out that no one has gotten away with the things you seem to think we have. Here is where Finbul IC commented that it was weird that Theron got better overnight; amtar.proboards.com/post/20934/thread it was in front of literally the entire party Here is where Finbul expressed skepticism when Theron tried to explain away his spell; amtar.proboards.com/post/21708/thread-It almost lead to a fight here; amtar.proboards.com/post/21721/thread-And, in fairness, this was following a precedent set because we'd already decided that the group could not tell that you were casting a spell here; amtar.proboards.com/post/20867/threadIf you want to extend examples past just spell casting and spell-like abilities there are a few other instances of PCs getting called out for acting squirrelly - including the discussion we had on whether or not the PCs would notice that animals get spooked around Lillian, the fact that Katya questioned Lillian about why she sleeps (before Daos informed me that elves do sleep in this world - but I'm still including it because it's an example of weird things getting noticed), and the fact that there are about three pages of roleplay back on the Seldon Festival thread that revolve around Katya figuring out that Jherek has killed someone entirely from nebulous clues that something was wrong. In fact while we were discussing this, over in the IC thread Theron figured out that something was weird with Katya because she backpedaled on discussing philosophy in front of everyone. I've not treated you any differently than I've treated anyone else, or any differently than I expect to be treated.
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Post by GravityEmblem on Mar 29, 2018 18:52:16 GMT -8
stuff stuff - including the discussion we had on whether or not the PCs would notice that animals get spooked around Lillian, other stuff... Wait, really? Huh. I didn't realize everybody knew.
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