D&D Discussion

[Daos]

Anyone here have much knowledge about 3E?

I've been replaying Temple of Elemental Evil on the PC recently, which is a 3E game.  I remade the entire party from Greywolf's Village of Hommlet game, the best I could.  So that means I gave my character, a half-elf wizard, a sling.  But the game imposes a to hit penalty for not having proficiency in the weapon.  And this is where I get confused.  Because the item description for a sling classifies it as a 'simple' weapon.  And according to the wizard's character sheet, he has proficiency in simple weapons.  So I'm not sure if this is a glitch or some obscure 3E rule I'm just not aware of.

[FortunatePilgrim]

I don't know the game, but in 3.0 and 3.5, Wizards are proficient with daggers, darts, clubs, crossbows and quarterstaves, not all Simple Weapons. Druids, Monks, and Wizards are the only classes that start without Simple Weapon Proficiency. So that seems like a text-based mistake on the sheet (maybe because Sorcerors have SWP? And someone in dev got lazy the the cut and paste?). Get your Wizard a Light Crossbow and see what happens. 

[Daos]

That's so weird to me.  I always think of 3E as being much more permissive than 2E, but in 2E wizards can use slings.  That they cannot in 3E just seems strange to me.  But, oh, well.  I'll see about getting him a crossbow then.  Thanks for the info.

[FortunatePilgrim]

It's not that they can't use slings, they just get it as a class feature. But the Feat Simple Weapon Proficiency lets you use all simple weapons.

[Daos]

That's where things get weird.  Because when I pull up the wizard's character sheet and look at his feats, he has four:

Scribe Scroll
Spell Penetration
Simple Weapon Proficiency Wizard
Call Familiar

So that third one is really confusing me on why he suffers a penalty to slings, a simple weapon.

[Rax]

Probably an error if the game is supposed to use the actual 3.0/3.5 rules. As FortunatePilgrim says, wizards don't have proficiency with slings unless they pick the Simple Weapon Proficiency feat.

If your character is lvl 1, he would have Summon Familiar and Scribe Scroll as bonus feats, and would only be able to pick one more feat. So he should have either Spell Penetration or Simple Weapon Proficiency, not both if he's half elf.

[FortunatePilgrim]

My guess is that "Simple Weapon Proficiency Wizard" refers to the package of simple weapons Wizards start the game proficient in. Check a Fighter's sheet to see if it says Simple Weapon Proficiency Fighter or just Simple Weapon Proficiency.

And then check either a Druid or Monk's sheet, see what that says.

That should solve it.

[Daos]

He's level 2, but I don't know if that makes any difference or not.  But wait, if wizards are not automatically proficient in simple weapons, doesn't that mean they aren't proficient in any weapon?  Certainly not martial or exotic, and isn't that all there is?  Like, isn't a light crossbow also a simple weapon?

I pulled up everyone's character sheets and here's what they say:

The half-elf wizard has the 'Simple Weapon Proficiency Wizard' feat.
The elf wizard/rogue has three of them:  'Simple Weapon Proficiency Elf,' 'Simple Weapon Proficiency Wizard' and 'Simple Weapon Proficiency Rogue.'
The half-orc fighter/cleric, the dwarf fighter/cleric and the human paladin all have 'Simple Weapon Proficiency.'

[Kvard51]

In 3.x, the Wizard has a limited selection of simple weapons.

[Daos]

Which doesn't include sling, apparently?  I guess the game just doesn't communicate that well.  Or maybe they assume the player would already know that?

[FortunatePilgrim]

It just doesn't communicate it well. When it says "Simple Weapon Proficiency Wizard" what it means is club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff.

Rogue is even weirder. These are the weapons Rogues are automatically proficient in: crossbow (hand or light), dagger (any type), dart, light mace, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), short sword, heavy crossbow, heavy mace, morningstar, quarterstaff, and rapier.

Shortbows, shortswords and rapiers are all Martial Weapons. And Hand Crossbows are Exotic. So that's REALLY not communicated well. Same with Half-Elf.

It must assume you know that already. Or maybe it's listed in some obscure subscreen or something.

[Daos]

It's still weird to me that mages wouldn't automatically get access to slings.  Ah, well.  I hit level 3 last night, so gave my wizard the Simple Weapon Proficiency feat, so now it shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[FortunatePilgrim]

I agree it's weird. Just give Wizards proficiency in all Simple Weapons, like Sorcerors have, and be done with it. It makes no sense either as a balancing mechanic or as a nod to verisimilitude.

But then, for all the intensity of my almost 40-year love affair with D&D, many things about it don't make a ton of sense.

[Daos]

True enough.  It's basically tradition at this point.

[Daos]

Anyone here use dice towers when they play?  I've noticed them becoming more popular recently.  All of my games are online, so I'd have no use for one, but I was curious what everyone else thought.