LSO OOC Thread II

[Daos]

Just to clarify, Jaeron is going to fire at Slaver 8, who is already unconscious?

[GreyWolfVT]

No i didn't see that in the post so ok i guess i will have to pick another target...

[HorizonsDream]

Well, I figure we need to come up with some sort of plan here since it is ten against four. I had a couple of vague ideas, but I've never been very good at the whole strategy thing. I was thinking of by passing the guards to the ship completely by having Kalana jump in the water and swim to the outside of the ship. She could climb up the front of the ship, and start attacking the guards there. For this to work, someone would have to stay on land to distract the guards there. It would sort of be like a pincer attack.

I also had the idea of setting guards on fire, but since they aren't supposed to kill anyone that would be a problem. Damaging the ship is out of the question because that would take way too long to do.

There is also the option of setting the ship on fire, but that would harm the slaves on the ship.

However we handle this, it is probably going to have to be creative.

[GreyWolfVT]

I'm not a strategist either. I have no ideas. Other than we could try knocking the guards into the water but then we still have the mage and crossbow men to worry about. Really what we need is a few more spell casters on our side of this. Some sleep spells or hold person spells would be really handy right now.

[Rax]

The wizard is right that we're outnumbered. Splitting our forces won't do much other than allow the slavers to gang up on us. As before, anything we do is going to depend a lot on us getting lucky.

With that said, here are some ideas:

1. The slavers have been fighting till they drop because they don't fear the consequences of defeat. What if we tell them that the sheriff is mightily pissed off and he's let us know that if a slaver's head were to be accidentally cut off and lost, no one's going to be making an effort to recover the body parts so that the corpse can be resurrected. Since lying like that seems to be a straight Cha check, my vote would be for Kalana to try it. Imrich will happily throw in an Intimidate check to let the swordsmen know how much he's looking forward to taking them apart now that the gloves are off.

2. If any of the slavers seem discomfited by such claims, Kalana should make it clear that surrender is an option.

3. We could try and turn the swordsmen against their leader again. We point out to that we've taken out all their friends so far (we should go back through the thread and get a precise number), and that they're being sacrificed to let their leader escape. Whatever gains they might have believed they were going to make are about to vanish into thin air. Do they really want to fight to the death for him?

4. A variation on number 3 would be to try and get all the slavers to turn on the leader. More lying might work here - tell them that Aguru's worked out where they're headed and that volunteer ships are already on their way to cut off the escape route. We might up the charade by having one of us shout through the door to the sheriff that he was right - they have a boat here and they headed out to sea. We then let the slavers know that we understand they're small fry and that we're willing to let them go if they release the slaves and turn over their leader to us.

5. If the slavers aren't afraid of defeat because they're going to be healed or raised, then the slaves can certainly expect the same treatment. We should convince them that they have nothing to lose by attacking the slavers on the boat while we charge in and engage the swordsmen. Any chaos the slaves can cause will delay a response from the ship. Hell, if they just start pushing to jump overboard that will force the slavers to choose between letting them go or waste time trying to stop them.

...but you know what? Everyone in our party is capable of operating under water pretty much without restriction. The stream's ten feet deep and we're about forty feet from the end of the boat. We can easily jump in the stream and swim under the boat. The slaves actually surround the slavers on board, so there's no easy way for the slavers to attack us from the boat - even with crossbows - without moving them out of the way.

Once under the boat, we should be safe from attack. Imrich can hang out down there indefinitely. He could use his swords to pierce the hull and then start prying the planks loose. It's a small boat and he's as strong as a hill giant - he should be able to put some serious holes in the boat in no time.

Jaeron and Senllip can either just hang out under the boat or they can pop up and try to drag any slaves at the gunwales down into the water with us, or just attack slavers standing there and then duck back under water next round.

Of the four of us, Kalana is the only one who can't actually breathe under water. She can hold her breath for 4 rounds if she does nothing but stay under the boat, or 2 rounds if she assists Imrich by hacking away at the boat (which she can do because she's got a ring of free action). When she needs more air, she can do the classic "mouth-to-mouth breathing" thing with Jaeron (his helmet creates a bubble of air). Or she just do what I suggested for Jaeron and Senllip above and make opportunistic attacks on slavers/drag slaves overboard. Remember, we don't care if the slaves die - they'll get resurrected.

Edit: Instead of all of us going in the water, if we spend a round talking, Jaeron can hand his helmet to Kalana then duck back inside the door. With Jaeron's helmet, Kalana is now free to act and breathe underwater. Imrich, Kalana and Senllip can then go swimming while Jaeron fires his musket from the door to keep the slavers busy. He can also call out to the slaves to fight or jump overboard.

Daos

How clear is the water in the stream? If it's murky I'd expect it to be considerably more difficult for the slavers to target us with crossbows if we hug the bottom. That might apply even if the water's fairly clear - if it's a stream there should be at least some current and shooting a bolt into water ought to reduce it's damage potential somewhat.

[Daos]

A couple of things:

The slaves have their arms bound together and are sitting down.  So it would be easy for the crossbowmen to shoot over them, and if they jumped into the water, they'd probably just drown (on account of their hands being bound), whether they know how to swim or not.

What you're describing at the end is scuttling the ship.  Horizons had the same idea, and we spoke about it earlier, and that is why she said "damaging the ship...would take way too long to do."

According to Of Ships and the Sea, PCs can attempt to scuttle a ship from beneath it, but there are obstacles:

Scuttling deals 1d2 damage to the hull each round, but only if there are 8 people.  For every 1 less than 8, it takes an extra round to deal the damage.  So assuming all four of you work at this, you could deal 1d2 damage to the hull every 5 rounds.  But Jaeron can't swim, he can just walk along the bottom and so wouldn't be able to reach, even if he did have piercing weapons, which he doesn't.  So with just Imrich, Kalana and Senllip, it would be 1d2 damage every 6 rounds.

No modifiers are included on these damage rolls, from specialization, strength, magical enhancement or anything else.  (And for good reason; otherwise, Kalana and Imrich working together could probably sink galleons quite easily.)

You're right about the stopping power of water.  Unless the PCs are swimming at the surface, or very near to it, any bolts fired at them likely won't hit them at all while they are underwater.  If they are directly under the boat, there's no line of sight for the crossbowmen to shoot them anyway.

[HorizonsDream]

Kalana isn't going to try to turn the slavers against their leader because they already spectacularly failed at that in the beginning. They obviously think that the pay off is worth it, and they outnumber us so I think if Kalana was to try to lie about it it wouldn't be very convincing. I'm pretty sure Daos would give me a penalty to the roll.

Lying about how the sheriff is going to allow us to take off the kid gloves would probably give me another penalty to the roll. If slavers know that the law isn't going to outright kill people for doing things like this. That is why they picked this island to capture slaves in the first place. There is no real threat. It is possible that Kalana could lie and say that at this point they don't care about the law they are supposed to be following. These men are slavers, and they deserve death for what they are doing for people. Though, I have a feeling that she would have to prove it before she was believed. Didn't Imrich accidentally kill one of the slavers in the last battle?

As Daos mentioned, my first idea was to start hacking away at the ship so that they could escape. He told me what needed to be done, so I ruled out that possibility.

Having Senllip, Imrich, and Kalana go into the water and leaving Jaeron behind with the door shield seems risky. Jaeron could probably get off a few shots at the guards on land before they finally decided to over take him since they are swordsmen.

We need to make the odds a little more even. What if one of the three swimmers jump in the water with the intention of knocking the plank over so that the swordsmen can't use it to board the ship? If we all jump in the water, the swordsmen are going to board the ship and that doesn't even out the odds of this battle much. Once the swimmer is close enough to the ship he or she should dive under the water (possibly under the ship) so that the ones on the ship can't see what the swimmer is doing, and then the swimmer quietly reemerges under the plank with the intention of knocking it over. The three on land, once the swimmer dives, can charge at the swordsmen with the door shield as if they plan on using that to knock the men into the water (this provides a distraction so that the swimmer can knock the plank over). Once the plank is knocked over, the three on land (Jaeron is going to need some help since he can't swim) drop the shield before actually making contact with the swordsmen, jump in the water, swim hopefully a short distance, and climb up the ship in hopes of fighting the five men aboard. The swordsmen could also jump in the water to chase after the group, but I'm hoping that our group will have a head start.

That plan has a lot of holes in it, but it is the best I can come up with that might give us better odds at surviving. Aside from that, the lying plan about how they aren't going to hold back anymore is an option (but I still think that this leader is going to ask for proof on the matter because I'm of the opinion that he thinks his men are disposable).

[GreyWolfVT]

Part of the bigger issue here is that I screwed up and never selected spells so Jaeron is a big handicap to the team currently. 

[Rax]

Oh for f*ck's sake! I just wrote a long reply to HorizonsDreams and managed to delete the whole thing by accidentally hitting back space. Doesn't this forum have any means of auto-saving a post?

Right then. Answers (and at the risk of repeating points previously made) in bullet points to both Daos and HorizonsDream :

• The slaves - Being bound and sitting down doesn't prevent them from getting up and getting in the way of the slavers or jumping overboard. With sufficient encouragement, I find it unbelievable that they won't seize a chance to free themselves. They may be killed, but because of the Octhanian policies that Aguru and the slaver leader have repeated ad nauseam, they are at no actual risk of permanent injury or death. They've also been selected from people with no family and no ties, so each of them really only has one thing to decide - do I want to be made a slave or not? In the past few minutes, they've seen us and Aguru come to their aid and successfully beat down the slavers. Simply put, this is crunch time for the captives. 
  
  
• Lying to the slavers to demoralize them and/or turn them against the leader - Death isn't the only possible threat. The win condition for any individual slaver is to escape Sanctuary with their captives so that they can get a cut of the profits. Capture is therefore as much a threat as being hurt or killed. Their leader is happily letting his men take the fall to help him get away. The five swordsmen, at the very least, should have serious concerns about being left behind considering they're being tasked with holding off the four lunatics who've chewed through everything that the Wolves have thrown at them.
  
  
• Jaeron being captured or killed - As with the captives and slavers, this isn't actually a threat. Unless all four of us are defeated or killed, Jaeron will be released or raised once the slavers are beaten. Our only loss condition here is that the slavers get away.
  
  
• Scuttling the ship (boat?) - This may indeed take some time, but we shouldn't need to sink it to get a reaction from the slavers. Yes, Daos could decide to have the leader laugh mockingly and order them to set sail, but the ordinary slavers should be rightfully worried when we display a hitherto unknown capacity to operate freely in the water and they notice that we're punching holes in their getaway vessel. They have no way of knowing how quickly we can sink them and even being sunk after a short sail is a loss for them.  
  
  
• Re the scuttling rules in Of Ships and the Sea - The rules mention a free action effect negating the additional personnel requirements for landlubbers. Kalana has that and both Senllip and Imrich have swim speeds in water, so it seems fair that the base team size should be 6, not 8. With Imrich's giant strength, it also seems reasonable to me that he should count as a Large size creature.
  
  
• HorizonsDreams's plan - Sure, cutting off the swordsmen on land is a good idea. Assuming Daos even allows us to shift the gangplank from the water, either Kalana or Imrich should be fast enough that they can dive into the water, swim to the plank and knock it down in one round. In that case, no elaborate deception is needed. With that said, I'm not sure how we're supposed to climb up the sides of the boat - Daos , how high are the sides of the boat anyway? - without exposing ourselves to point blank attacks from the boat. That really does need someone to provide suppressing fire - again, I think Jaeron is best suited for this - and for the slaves to make an effort to keep the slavers off balance.
  
  
• In summary - Points in favour of my plan: Anyone in the water is safe from attack and we can take our time holing the hull. Points in favour HorizonsDream's plan: It's likely to be decisive far more quickly than my idea. The likely reaction from the slavers is easier to determine. Points against my plan: It will take longer and the slavers may decide that running is their best bet, negating the ultimate point of the exercise. Points against HorizonsDream's plan: It's uncertain whether we can easily shift the gangplank or climb onto the boat. It also exposes us to attack when we're severely weakened.
  
  
• [Possible plan combo - Use my plan but either Kalana or Imrich will first try to knock the gangplank into the water. If it works, we have the benefit of stranding the swordsmen on the shore (unless they're all tremendously athletic and can leap aboard the ship anyway). Jaeron can stay by the door and snipe with his musket while encouraging the slaves to rise up and fight for their lives and freedom. If the ship looks like it's getting underway, Kalana, Imrich and Senllip can still climb aboard and try and take the ship.] 
  

[Daos]

This forum does have an auto-save feature.  Once you returned to the posting page, a pop-up should have appeared asking if you would like to restore the draft you were working on.  Like this:



Not sure why it didn't trigger for you.  Sorry about that.

A couple of things I wanted to mention:

The little river the boat is floating on is moving fairly swiftly.  This probably isn't a problem for any of the PCs, but any refugees who jump in are likely to be carried away.  It's going to be difficult to raise them if their bodies are lost at sea.

The sides of the boat are about five feet high.  I'd probably rule a standard climbing walls check, but with the 'slightly slippery' penalty (-25%), as well as penalties for armor (-5%), encumbrance if any (-5% for each level), and for being below 50% HP (-10%).

Keep in mind that Jaeron's ROF with that rifle is only 1/2.  And he hasn't reloaded, as far as I know, since he last fired it.  So he'd have to spend a round to reload first.

[GreyWolfVT]

yup unfortunately i went to get healed and never reloaded like i meant to. So unloaded. 

Also i have had the same problem with losing a post and having to start over. Never got that autosave pop-up myself.

[Daos]

Interesting...

Okay, so I did some research, and apparently it's something you can turn on or off in your profile.  I assumed it was turned on for everyone by default, but it's possible I'm wrong on that.  Pull up your profile, click on the 'Edit Profile' button, and go to the 'Settings' tab.  Look for the 'Enable Drafts' option, and see if it is set to 'yes' or 'no.'

[GreyWolfVT]

enable drafts was off. So maybe that is the default. I changed to yes (on) now.

[Daos]

Hmm, I went through my admin options, to see if there was a way to turn it on for everyone by default, and there doesn't appear to be.  Not sure why it wouldn't be default on 'yes.'  So I'll just have to make a post to let everyone know that's a thing they can do.

[HorizonsDream]

You do know that the raising of these people isn't exactly guaranteed right? Kalana, for example, has an 80% chance of being raised. While there is a pretty decent percentage that Kalana will be raised, there is still a 20% chance that it won't happen.

Anyway, there are still two other people in this game, and we have two different plans plus a third option which means that we do both plans basically. Do we put it to a vote?