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Post by Daos on Apr 16, 2023 15:35:06 GMT -8
If you all want to nominate each other with examples of acts that have elevated the game, making it more fun, feel free and I'll consider them.
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Matt4
Paragon
Posts: 3,545
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Post by Matt4 on Apr 17, 2023 11:47:33 GMT -8
Oh, that's cool too, although it would have been nice to know if you enjoyed some of our scenes in particular u.u
Hmm..just from recent memory, the scene where the group come together to comfort Eliana I thought was very sweet. But I'll try and remember something else too.
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Post by Igordragonian on Apr 17, 2023 14:04:47 GMT -8
Thank you for the explanation about Divination. I hope I get it well enough. Hmm.
About inspiration, the scene with Eliana discovering her dragon-thing.. pulled nice RP from us. I think.
I am not sure what qualify for inspiration, I always assumed it should be, that the DM enjoy a specific choice or RP or something
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Post by Daos on Apr 17, 2023 18:33:10 GMT -8
Okay, yeah...I can accept that. Horizon did put a lot of work into portraying Eliana as rightfully freaked out about the revelation that there is an ancient, evil dragon soul in her body, and questioning the potential ramifications of that. That was pretty good. So yeah, I'll reward her Inspiration for that. Good call.
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Post by HorizonsDream on Apr 18, 2023 12:02:38 GMT -8
I could make an argument that Henry's outburst at Zakkoth was potentially decent role-playing. It had been established multiple times that Henry didn't like the nickname that Zakkoth had given him, so with the stress that the party has been going through lately, I think it kind of makes sense for Henry to snap the way he did.
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Post by Daos on Apr 18, 2023 13:23:59 GMT -8
Hmm, I'm of two minds on that. I agree it was a good scene, and it show cased Henry's primary flaw of anger. But on the other hand, I'm reluctant to reward inter-party conflict. While I don't forbid that sort of behavior, I feel like rewarding it could risk encouraging more of it.
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Post by Bunny Commando on Apr 18, 2023 16:06:33 GMT -8
I truly feel that characterizing that scene as intra-party conflict is quite excessive: it was resolved quickly, did not lead to any truly lasting consequence and was followed by quite the sweet scene between Chantilly and Zakkoth and then between Zakkoth and Henry that I intended to continue as soon as the party could catch a little breath.
But there's something else that is quite concerning to me: lack of trust. To be more precise, that rewarding such a scene could derail the game because it could lead to more scenes like that. And given my history in this game, where another character has been quite hostile to mine multiple times (and a couple of times the player himself to me) and I just tried not to escalate things further, feels quite unfair to be judged as someone that could potentially create more conflict.
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Post by Daos on Apr 18, 2023 16:36:31 GMT -8
I'll point out it was Zakkoth who reached out to Henry afterward, not the other way around. Igor could have had Zakkoth hold a grudge instead. That was outside of your control; you had no idea how he would react. Things could have gone very differently. I'm glad things worked out, but there was no guarantee they would have. Igor could have been just as uncomfortable with Henry's hostility as you were with Caelin's. (Honestly, I think a better argument would be to give Zakkoth Inspiration for playing the peacemaker, except he already has it from way back in the first session.)
And I don't see how it's unfair. I never rewarded Zero for Caelin's anti-social behavior, either. He never once received Inspiration or anything else for his hostile behavior toward Henry.
Anyway, while I don't forbid that sort of thing, I just don't feel comfortable rewarding it. I feel that the point of Inspiration is to provide incentive. It's a reward. Rewards exist to promote specific behaviors, in the same way that punishments exist to discourage specific behaviors.
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Post by Igordragonian on Apr 18, 2023 20:02:47 GMT -8
About inner conflicts- I think in general, when there is trust among the players it can be fun and engaging to have bickerings here and there between the characters. Or actual genioune conflicts. It make it more alive, I think. People have diffrent opinions and behaviors, diffrent cultures and histories- what is kindness for one is insulting to other.
I usually tone it up and down, seeing how the group like or dislike it and the general vibe of the game. I tend to like more, my more cranky and rude characters over my "nice' characters. my "nice" characters tend to melt into "YES SIR!"
I dont think either me and Bunny Commando (as far as I know and also hope) have actual grudge. Just some fun characters dynamics- as I see it. Zakkoth is eldery, sort of ahteisst/anti religiouse with bad exprience with faith and a blind loyalty to a cause, and general toxicity. When he nice, it can be very akward. (His encouragment speeches can be akward and self centered for example)
Henry is a young idealist knight, who take things as seriously as only young people can. I dunno, I think it can be natural and fun to see such dynamics
But anyway, I think it sensical not to reward this- maybe not in this way. I am fine with or without inspiration. The way I see it? if the DM was very impressed by something- than the DM give inspiratiom. I dont feel priviliged to get it all the time.
It's really for DM's decision. Also, I imagine there were more moments over the advdnture- characters saving each other, but I would feel petty to comb over previouse adventures.
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Post by Daos on Apr 19, 2023 13:55:10 GMT -8
I just got a PM from BunnyCommando that he is formally dropping the game, effective immediately.
Consequently, and for a few other reasons as well, I will be ending this game here. Three years is a long time for any game, and Henry marks the 14th person to drop/ghost this game. I realized long ago that we were never going to reach the actual ending anyway (it took us three years to get here, it would probably take even longer to reach the ending). So this is as good a stopping point as any.
I was willing to push on as long as we still had four of you, but I don't really have the spoons to continue any more, even if we found another replacement. I've been feeling pretty burned out lately, not to mention overworked and underappreciated. So we'll just call it here.
Thanks to everyone who stuck around as long as you did. Although it took me the better part of a decade to figure out, I now understand long-term campaigns just aren't a good fit for forum games. They take way, way, waaay too long to complete.
Anyway, sorry to let everyone down.
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Matt4
Paragon
Posts: 3,545
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Post by Matt4 on Apr 19, 2023 16:40:17 GMT -8
I can't say I'm shocked tbh, I don't think the situation was handled really well and I was worried it would have ended it this way :/
I have a few thoughts on this but..it's a stressful time for everyone, so I'm not sure on how they would be received so I'll just leave it at that..
I'm really bummed about this, I'm not gonna lie..I wish we'd be able to at least complete the first half of the campaign, it would at least have some sort of ending and a bit of conclusion..being so close to the final battle and ending it literally one door before it.. it's really disappointing. And it's so disappointing especially because I was really enjoying the campaign, thanks to both Daos and the others. I was engulfed in the story and cared about the characters. I have a lot of good memories from it and I just wish it had a better conclusion..but I'm still grateful for the experience. Is there a way we could at least pull through and finish this chapter? (This is a question for Bunny too, if he's still reading here).
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Post by Daos on Apr 19, 2023 19:45:43 GMT -8
To be clear, the party was not one door away from the final battle. Defeating Rezmir would not have ended the chapter. The party would still be in the middle of a flying citadel, with no immediate way down, surrounded by enemies, en route to an unknown destination.
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Post by HorizonsDream on Apr 19, 2023 20:53:23 GMT -8
I don't know if it is right to give my two cents on the matter or not, but I'm going to do it anyway.
From my understanding of inspiration, it is a reward from the DM. You don't go around asking for inspiration. Like I said, in the case of Henry, I could make an argument that it was good role playing between him and Zakkoth, but at the same time I also understand the reluctance to give inspiration for that scene. Rewarding party conflict can be a bit of a slippery slope due to past experiences with other players. The very fact that he asked for inspiration in the first place didn't quite sit well with me, so when I saw that Eliana got inspiration, that didn't really feel quite right to me either mostly because another player had asked for inspiration in the first place. The overall idea of having other players nominate people for inspiration isn't a bad idea though.
Overall, I feel like this was just Bunny's way of trying to get out of the game. He had threaten to do so multiple times in past chapters for various reasons (lack of magical items, tired of being all sneaky, etc...). All of the stuff that he threaten to quit over previously were all things that were out of Daos' control because of how the game was written so if you think about it, it seems a little more unreasonable to quit over something that someone doesn't have control over. Daos does have control over inspiration though, so while I still think it was unreasonable and silly overall, he found his way out. I have nothing against Bunny. I liked him, and I'm sad to see him go. This is just my thoughts on the whole thing.
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Post by Daos on Apr 20, 2023 11:05:03 GMT -8
I don't know, maybe. But I gave everyone an out after the last chapter and the one before that. Because there was a part of me that foresaw this happening. But for whatever reason, he didn't take those outs, but waited until we were in a chapter to walk away.
I don't think he's coming back, though. If he were looking to open a dialogue or was willing to be potentially talked into staying, he would have made his announcement here. He instead sent me a brief PM (and there was nothing about it that needed to be private), which gave me the impression is was more of a permanent goodbye.
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Matt4
Paragon
Posts: 3,545
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Post by Matt4 on Apr 20, 2023 18:47:36 GMT -8
I agree that going around asking for ispiration is not a thing I particularly like either...but ispiration is also not that big of a deal tbh, knowing that bunny was frustrated/unhappy with the game I don't think it would have been unreasonable to just give it out this once (especially since there was the easy way out of awarding it for the group scene from last chapter, as both me and Igor suggested, to not make it seem like it was a freebie he could just ask on command).
I don't think it was his way of getting out of the game, more than the last straw that broke the camel back. If he wanted to quit, he didn't really need to do all this, he would have just ghosted like the thirteen players did before him
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