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Post by Daos on Jul 18, 2023 18:27:01 GMT -8
Well, at least that was a short one. And hey, you made it out without losing all of your weapons, so there's that.
I'll try and get XP up soon.
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TristenC
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Post by TristenC on Jul 18, 2023 18:53:51 GMT -8
Nice. I'm kind of glad to see an ending that lets the pcs take back their lives a little and get out on their own terms. That was a great idea, Matt!
And it just puts the icing on the cake getting to take out lord Myca, hahah
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Post by Daos on Jul 18, 2023 19:50:56 GMT -8
I'm glad you enjoyed it. That was one of the most railroaded adventures I've ever seen. (It was actually way worse as written, believe it or not. I softened it a bit.) And yeah, there were three possible ways out of there, the water tunnel was probably the best one since it let you go straight to your ship. So anyway, that wraps up "Eyes of the Minotaur." It took us five months to get through it. As always, with the end of an adventure, my first question for you all is--do we continue with this party and setting, or do something else? Second question, how are we feeling on the no crit/fumble rule? Keep it or change it back? Third question, if we are sticking to this party and setting, here's my post from last time: There are five possible adventures for a party of this level. Two are full blown modules and three are shorter adventures, like Tanglewood Keep and Crusade were. I think the modules are out, though. Both require the party to be particularly heroic and can't simply be rewritten easily. One even requires the party have a Knight of Solamnia in the party and takes place in Palanthas, and I can't see them letting a priest of Sargonnas walk around there. So that leaves the three mini-adventures. Coincidentally, they all take place on or near Mithas in the Blood Sea and all three involve Minotaurs, as well. It will probably be necessary to do at least two of these mini-adventures, if not all three, to get the party to a level high enough to open up new options. So this will less be a choice between the three as it will be a choice in what order we play them. The first adventure is a high seas quest, and I can probably even work the Dark Squall into it, so it will actually be a set piece instead of just a base used between adventures. It looks fairly well written, with lots of interesting NPCs, backstory and even several possible endings. The one downside is it might be rather hard. It's meant for a 'well-balanced' party of 3rd to 5th level, but it's not clear what they mean by 'well-balanced.' This is also the one that strongly suggests everyone know how to swim. Some of the fights look a bit tough, but they usually have NPCs in them to help. The second adventure requires 3-4 characters of 3rd to 5th level, so no problem there. But it's...extremely rail-roady. Perhaps one of the most railroaded adventures I've ever seen, even. Like, I don't want to spoil anything, but let's just say the party spends most of the adventure in chains. The basic premise is one of those 'party is forced to fight as gladiators' things, so Dallion's character can probably shine, at least. But I don't know if the general lack of agency would be a dealbreaker for anyone.The third adventure requires 6-8 characters of 3rd to 5th level, so we'd need to recruit some more people for it. It's pretty well written and has some interesting moral dilemmas in it. It also heavily focuses on Minotaur culture, which is cool. The basic premise is the Minotaur Emperor wants to hire you for an important and well paying job, but first you need to do a little task to prove you are worthy. And things may not be as they first appear. So the question would be, which of the remaining two adventures do you want?
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TristenC
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Post by TristenC on Jul 19, 2023 7:01:45 GMT -8
I'm 100% down for continuing with this party. Either of the small one-shots looks good to me in principal (actually would love a high-seas adventure) but we are all just barely level appropriate for those and I doubt we all leveled up from this chapter since we just leveled up. I don't really want to lose the party due to power/capability mismatch.
If that can be bulked up with NPCs or other players then maybe it can work. It looks like Parra and Kaele are the only ones who can;t swim. Any npcs that can cast water breathing in that module? Lol
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Matt4
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Post by Matt4 on Jul 19, 2023 7:16:57 GMT -8
Nice. I'm kind of glad to see an ending that lets the pcs take back their lives a little and get out on their own terms. That was a great idea, Matt! Ahah thank you, but I'll admite I mostly accepted the huge nudge from Daos. but obviously now I'm curious, what were the other 2 possible endings? I guess one was just to accept Myca's deal, but the other? My comment for this module is that I actually enjoyed for what it was. Apart for the railroad part, I really liked the big fight with the minotaurs, it was pretty exciting xD I also vote to stick with this party! And for the next adventure maybe I'd vote for the third one? Just because at least we barely fit the criteria for that one, since we are 6 characters (with Parra), at the suggested level (and it's not described as really hard ). About my lack of proficiency for Swimming, jaguars are really great swimmers so maybe I could just hold onto Krenari? Lol Edit: as for having NPC to beef up the party... I remember some time ago that I could use my Divine Favour points to get special henchmen, granted powers or things like that. Maybe it's time I use some of those? How do they work exactly?
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Post by GreyWolfVT on Jul 19, 2023 7:56:32 GMT -8
I'm not sure if I'll continue on to be honest Daos. But if I do stick around I have no preference as to what is next for adventures.
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Post by Daos on Jul 19, 2023 11:13:13 GMT -8
I'm 100% down for continuing with this party. Either of the small one-shots looks good to me in principal (actually would love a high-seas adventure) but we are all just barely level appropriate for those and I doubt we all leveled up from this chapter since we just leveled up. I don't really want to lose the party due to power/capability mismatch. If that can be bulked up with NPCs or other players then maybe it can work. It looks like Parra and Kaele are the only ones who can;t swim. Any npcs that can cast water breathing in that module? Lol Yes, nobody leveled this time. It may be necessary to do both of the remaining adventures to get everyone up to 4th level, which will unlock a couple of new adventure possibilities. As it stands now, though, the remaining two adventures presented are all we really have, at least as far as Dragonlance goes. As for casting Water Breathing, I'll have to double check. But I will point out the party has a potion of water breathing still. It was meant to be used to contact the Dimernesti, but as the party already had a Dimernesti, it was not necessary so it should still have two doses left. Anyway, I'll say that's one vote to continue and one vote for the high seas adventure. Ahah thank you, but I'll admite I mostly accepted the huge nudge from Daos. but obviously now I'm curious, what were the other 2 possible endings? I guess one was just to accept Myca's deal, but the other? My comment for this module is that I actually enjoyed for what it was. Apart for the railroad part, I really liked the big fight with the minotaurs, it was pretty exciting xD I also vote to stick with this party! And for the next adventure maybe I'd vote for the third one? Just because at least we barely fit the criteria for that one, since we are 6 characters (with Parra), at the suggested level (and it's not described as really hard ). About my lack of proficiency for Swimming, jaguars are really great swimmers so maybe I could just hold onto Krenari? Lol Edit: as for having NPC to beef up the party... I remember some time ago that I could use my Divine Favour points to get special henchmen, granted powers or things like that. Maybe it's time I use some of those? How do they work exactly? As written, there are only two ways out. The water pit and Benny's tunnel. I discarded the latter, though, as it made no narrative sense. Basically, while you were fighting the Mabels, Benny was supposed to use his magic spade to tunnel into the arena. He was not meant to help in the fight at all, but the party could then use his tunnel to escape. EXCEPT...the module had already established that Benny could not tunnel into the arena! The bedrock prevented him from doing so, that's why he had to tunnel outside of the arena and you had to fight that guard to get inside. Like...this was a plot point and everything! Then the adventure just ignores it and has him tunnel in anyway. So I rewrote that one a bit. Also, in the module, there was no deal from Myca. As soon as the party is victorious, he betrays them and attacks. I added the deal as a way to offer you a little more agency, so the party could at least have a choice somewhere. (I also allowed you all to keep your weapons; the module as written specifies that the party has their weapons taken and are given short swords to fight with; considering nobody in the party is proficient with short swords, I imagine that would have made the fights significantly harder). So anyway, I kept the water pit escape as is. The Benny's tunnel one I changed out. If you look at the map, there's a big hole in the far northwestern corner of Section B. There was an ankheg in there. The module specifies it tunneled in and ate a duelist and is now camping there, waiting for another. The minotaurs decided to leave it alone since it provided a new obstacle. (Much like the giant octopus, it was possible for the party to kill it before the fight, eliminating an obstacle for the actual bout.) Now, as written, the tunnel doesn't seem to lead anywhere--the module doesn't say anything about it, just that there's a battle axe +1 and a couple of healing potions down there if the party should defeat it. So I rewrote it that if the party had defeated it, they could have followed its tunnel out. From there they could have made for the docks (which were lightly guarded, as pretty much everyone was at the arena) and stealthed, fought or bribed their way onto a rowboat and paddled out to their ship. The third way out was just turning themselves in. The module didn't even consider this a possibility, as it was never even mentioned. So I had to come up with something. I knew there was no way the minotaurs would accept the party as their new leaders. For one, they did not formally challenge Myca to a duel. Secondly, they did not fight him honorably (they ganged up on a blind man). Thirdly, they were mostly slave races (as far as the minotaurs were concerned). Even Granker was a Blood Sea minotaur, which the Thoradians viewed as inferior. So what would have happened is the party would have been arrested, their weapons taken and they would have been thrown back into their cell to be executed at first light. Of course, Benny's tunnel was still in there, so they could have then used that to reach Benny's cell, and he would have taken them to the gnomes (who were also slaves) who could have helped the party escape with an invention they were working on (a 'collapsible sailboat') to escape back to the ship. I'd argue this was the worst ending, because the party would lose their weapons and animals in the process. And since there was very little treasure to gain, they'd have to buy new ones out of pocket. Anyway, assuming Parra is back in (which is up to Igordragonian ), that does bring us back up to six, but if Greywolf is out, that drops us back down to five again, so it depends. In any case, I'll say that's two votes to continue and one vote each for the remaining adventures. And I don't think jaguars make for good waterborne mounts. Which you'd need a special proficiency to ride anyway. XD As for henchmen, yeah, the party is around the level I normally start introducing them. In my homebrew stuff, I usually design potential henchmen for the party to recruit, but in modules like this, I usually let them recruit anyone with a level that is lower than them when it ends. Sadly, that was just Benny this adventure (actually, all of the DL adventures we've done so have only offered kender companions--Twill, the children and now Benny. I guess you can see how incredibly popular Tasslehoff Burrfoot was, considering how many kender handlers were in these old games.) Anyway, even if the party had rescued Benny and taken him with them, I doubt anyone wanted him for a henchman. But you may run into more people in future adventures, so keep an eye out. As for Divine Favor, my old rule was that you could trade in 10 points to get a henchman devoted to that particular deity. Either the church would send them to aid you or the god themself would. Kaelestia is not quite there yet, although she's closer than anyone else at the moment. I'm not sure if I'll continue on to be honest Daos. But if I do stick around I have no preference as to what is next for adventures. Alright, I'll trust you'll let me know once you have a final decision either way.
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TristenC
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Post by TristenC on Jul 19, 2023 11:24:37 GMT -8
Sha'al is proficient in short swords, but yeah definitely not ideal (he took it at lvl 3). Seems like we got the 'good ending' lol. It also sounds like that module is designed to kill pcs :/
Are there any non-DL modules that could be adapted? It sounds like we're in a spot where the deck is stacked against us
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Post by Daos on Jul 19, 2023 11:58:06 GMT -8
Oh, right. Well, at least one of you would have been all right then. ^_^()
In any case, no, there's really nothing else I can use. The only other adventures I can use at this level require the party to be Good in alignment (it's central to the premise, in fact, so no amount of rewriting them can get around it). Unless we switched settings.
That said, some of you are close enough to level 4 you might hit it during an adventure, depending on how many chapters it winds up being. And anyway, even though the party is at the minimum level requirement, they still meet the requirement. Eyes of the Minotaur was for level 3-5, and the party survived that, so I think you have a decent chance of surviving either of the other two.
Also, before I forget--the only loot I think the party earned this adventure was the following: potion of water breathing, 20 STL, and two pearls. (If I forgot anything, let me know.) The money is easy enough to split up, but how do you all want to handle the potion and the pearls?
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TristenC
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Post by TristenC on Jul 19, 2023 12:13:39 GMT -8
Can anyone on the ship determine the value of the pearls? Unless Parra learns identify, i'm satisfied with just cashing them in and splitting it
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Matt4
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Post by Matt4 on Jul 19, 2023 12:16:55 GMT -8
I also got a pouch with 25 STL inside from the dead minotaur near the chained animals! As for the pearls, what's their value?
But yeah we seem to have got the good ending! But woah, this module was really filled with inconsistencies and plot holes (literally, like the one Benny was supposed to dig inside the arena!). Thank you Daos, for having handled that well (I cannot lose the scimitar, at least not before I finally manage to identify it!)
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Post by Daos on Jul 19, 2023 13:04:08 GMT -8
Assuming the pearls are valuable enough, they could be used as spell components. But if Parra returns and if she learns Identify, at her current level I'd argue her chances of success are low enough to not be worth it. I'd agree, you'd be better off appraising and selling them. Especially as treasure was so light in this one.
As nobody in the party knows Appraising, then I'd need to deduct 10% of their value to pay for the cost of appraising (e.g., if they are worth 100, then you'll get 90 from them). Assuming everyone is okay with that, I can do that and add the totals together and divvy them up among the party.
Oh, and I did forget that 25 steel. I'll add that to the pile, as well, thanks.
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Post by Dallion80 on Jul 19, 2023 16:47:14 GMT -8
sorry i was inactive the last few days had a bad migrine and back issues
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Post by Dallion80 on Jul 19, 2023 16:50:21 GMT -8
i like this group we should stick with it, as for adventure i am good with anything
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TristenC
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Post by TristenC on Jul 19, 2023 16:51:23 GMT -8
Sorry you weren't feeling well. Hope it's better now!
I'm good with the 10% of the gems to appraise
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