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Post by Daos on Aug 19, 2006 20:24:15 GMT -8
Vlad DID have backup. Sir Namord.
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Post by HorizonsDream on Aug 19, 2006 20:37:01 GMT -8
He did have back up, yes, but it also runs into the fact as I stated before, emotions were high. He probably was only thinking of saving his brother's life because Vlad knew that Sir Namord was the type to just kill evil. At least, I assume that is what Vlad knew, considering that their interests tended to conflict a lot, according to what I read.
I really don't think you can use that reasoning on this situation, as I'm going to assume that the American soilder isn't somehow related to the al'quadia member. The fact that Vlad is related to this assiassin makes things a little ify. If he wasn't related to him, then things would easily be different.
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Post by Daos on Aug 21, 2006 15:52:36 GMT -8
Here's another one. Let's see if we can get more people involved in this. The more opinions presented, the more interesting the discussion.
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In the wild and unruly lands of the East, the organization known as the Dark Matter has been destabilizing local rule and mustering troops, getting ready to take the whole continent for itself. In the far East, however, opposing forces are rising, led by the charismatic shogun Ringyuu.
Ringyuu has made peace agreements with his rivals and outright enemies and marshaled his allies, all for the purpose of opposing the Dark Matter. Since nothing less than an epic battle will settle the matter, Ringyuu is recalling all his retainers to the cause, even those who have, for some reason, retired. Included among them is a once-famous Samurai named Keigo.
Keigo is still a young man, who used to tour the countryside and defend Ringyuu's peasant subjects against monsters that sprang out of the wilderness. For some reason, four years ago, he asked for dismissal and withdrew to a farm. Ringyuu sends a representative to tell Keigo that his masterful skills with the blade are needed for the cause of good once again.
The representative, a somewhat older Samurai, finds Keigo living peacefully on a farm. With his wife, a woman with the fiendishly hard-to-pronounce name of Ithshkaboltar. The red-headed wench is clearly from the lands of the West and dresses in a man's leathers. She also is clearly skilled as a Rogue and Fighter; when the messenger rides up, Keigo and Ithshkaboltar and sparring in front of the chicken coop.
Keigo doesn't take the news of his recall very well; he says he can't possibly leave his holdings untended. The older Samurai tells him he'll receive a small stipend to hire a retainer, just like all the other people being recalled. Keigo says his skills must have deteriorated during his retirement. The older Samurai says that from what he just saw, he's become even better with the katana and wakizashi than he was before. Finally, Keigo pleads that he can't possibly leave his wife alone while he goes off to battle. Ithshkaboltar immediately volunteers to join up; it's been a long time since she went to war. The older Samurai claps Keigo on the shoulder, congratulates him with finding such a woman to be his wife, and agrees; Ithshkaboltar can come with Keigo and serve in his unit. Lord Ringyuu has already lifted the ban on woman soldiers, since the Dark Matter has such overwhelming numbers. The older Samurai tells Keigo that he has to come to Ringyuu's castle before the next full moon and departs; he still has many other retirees to visit. Now we come to the problem for Keigo. Four years ago, he rode out to protect a village against a pack of fiends that had somehow entered the area. Keigo fought valiantly and killed all of the fiends -- or so he thought. While he lay bleeding on the battlefield, dying of his wounds, the last fiend came out of hiding found him; a succubus named Ithshkaboltar.
Ithshkaboltar taunted the young Samurai, telling him how she would maul the town, now that he wouldn't be able to protect them anymore. Keigo struggled to rise, to fight her, which amused the succubus immensely -- and piqued her interest. She offered him a deal; since he intrigued her with his stubborn determination and convictions, she'd spare the village and heal his wounds, do everything that he asked of her during the day. In return, he would have to do everything that she asked of him during the night. Both parties in the deal not to make the other do anything that would be directly harmful to themselves, nor anything that would violate their essential nature.
It was clear that Ithshkaboltar wanted a chance to corrupt Keigo, but he had no choice; he had no allies within reach and he believed the succubus could easily wipe out the village. He agreed. Ithshkaboltar was true to her word and healed Keigo, following him meekly when he ordered her to come with him. As soon as night fell, however, she tormented the young Samurai with his own human weaknesses. Keigo feared the harm he might eventually do if he remained in his shogun's service with Ithshkaboltar working away at him, so he retired and withdrew from society so he could, in a small way, continue to protect people from evil - in the person of Ithshkaboltar. He even married the fiend in a religious ceremony, stressing the oath of fidelity, to minimize the risk she posed.
Ithshkaboltar has been highly amused by the whole exercise -- and intrigued by the fact that Keigo has continued to resist her efforts to corrupt him. He has even managed to keep his Samurai status, although she bedevils him nightly and makes him do things he finds shameful. In some ways, she might be said to be fond of him, much like a master toward a pet.
The chance to fight in a war is highly tempting to her, however. Keigo fears it is so tempting that Ithshkaboltar will commit horrors under the cover of darkness, which he won't be able to prevent. He is now torn between his desire to protect the people of the Prime Material Plane from Ithshkaboltar and his lawful obligation to answer the summons of his lord -- and the clear and present need to fight the Dark Matter. What should he do? You be the Judge ...
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Post by HorizonsDream on Aug 23, 2006 15:01:35 GMT -8
I'm not sure that getting this one person could mean winning a war. I admit, he is probably a great fighter, but even great heros are brought down in the end. This proves it considering that he gave in to a demon. He didn't have much choice, I know, but he still gave in to a demon to save a whole town. It is the whole sacrifice one person to save hundreds of others. I understand that reasoning and I agree with the choice, but I don't agree with him retiring. I'm pretty sure that if he just told someone what had happened (as I doubt Ithshkaboltar was with him 24/7). Once he told someone, he might have been able to defeat her with some help. That only makes sense to me. Though, he didn't do that and now there is this whole little predicament.
As to what he should do now since he was stupid enough to take on the responsibility of all of this on his own, I think he should keep up with what he has put upon himself. There are ways to get around it, I'm sure, but protecting a bunch of people from a demon rather than fighting in a war that would kill a bunch of people is the noble thing to do. The most he can do is tell his Lord the situation that he is in though. At least that way his Lord knows that he is trying to protect his people. Not only that, but one man is not going to mean the success of any war.
Now then, if he does tell his Lord of the situation he is in, it is quite possible that if his Lord wants him bad enough then he would probably try to help Keigo out with the demon problem that Keigo has managed to get himself into. That is only providing that Keigo is that important to the war that they are about to face. Though, I would think this Lord is understanding and wise enough to realize the sacrifice that Keigo is going through for his people.
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Post by Daos on Aug 23, 2006 16:10:08 GMT -8
This was brought up a lot in the other forum, but it neglects an important piece of information: That Keigo made an oath to the demon, and in order to get some of his buddies to gang up on her would be breaking that oath.
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Post by HorizonsDream on Aug 23, 2006 19:10:59 GMT -8
It still doesn't stop the fact that he could still tell someone. He doesn't have to ask for help, but he can at least tell someone. If help comes along the way, he can rest in peace knowing that he didn't ask for that help.
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Post by Daos on Sept 4, 2006 14:57:21 GMT -8
Got a new one for you. If you don't recognize the name "Hextor", just pretend it reads "D'lokka" since both are LE deities of war.
The Thorny Rose The party so far has been made up of largely good-hearted people, prone to the occasional argument or feud. The details aren't important; modular good-doers. They work as explorers for a patron, who occasionally has to do business with unsavory people but is herself good-hearted. One day, a new party member joins, apparently with the patron's approval, though the patron hasn't said anything about it. (The patron is usually aloof and absent; the quirk is seen as odd, but this newest instance is well in keeping with it.) The new adventurer's name is Rose -- a fighter with emphasis on spiked weaponry (chain, armor, gauntlet) and grappling. Over the course of their first adventure with Rose, a few things become obvious. 1) She obeys orders without question. And suggestions. And even sarcastic comments. No matter how disgusting, abhorrent, dangerous, or humiliating they might be. She does so swiftly, almost desperately. There are a few orders she won't obey; more on those in a bit. If she thinks an order is unwise, she'll only say something if it's because she has a piece of information which the others don't know. 2) If not told to do anything, she'll usually wait around or tag along, doing nothing, unless there's a fight going on. She almost never takes the initiative. 3) She's very, very, very polite. She's always apologizing for her errors, and has an odd tendency to flinch if one of the party members (or the patron, but not anyone else) standing right in front of her makes a sudden move. 4) She takes upon herself every chore imaginable; fetching water, cooking, starting campfires, cleaning armor, digging latrines... pretty much any scutwork the party needs to do, she does automatically, unless the party tells her not to. 5) She answers every question posed to her by the party instantly and without reserve, even if the subject troubles her. 6) After a fight, she makes a point of cataloging every mistake she made. These include failed to-hit rolls and times she "allowed" either herself or the other party members to become injured. 7) She is a worshiper of "Lord Hextor". She will make the occasional comment implying that everyone in the party will be eternally damned if they do not convert; she doesn't really attempt to convert them, though. Any detection spells used on her are in keeping with a LG alignment. 8) She always eats the cheapest, blandest food that would allow her to keep up her health. She disdains any sort of luxury at all. Beds aren't necessary when there's a floor to be had, and the floor isn't necessary when she can sleep on the ground instead. 9) Everything about her radiates misery, though when asked she says her needs are met and that she is very happy with her lot in life. Investigation of these oddities (including simply asking her) reveals that Rose is a slave. She was born a slave, and she expects to die a slave. Rose regards the rest of her party as her overseers. She was brought up worshiping Hextor because her master commanded it, and continues to do so because she believes she'll be eternally damned if she doesn't; it's the only religion she's ever known. She's brainwashed. Querying the patron provides some missing pieces. She came across Rose in the captivity of one of her suppliers. She wanted to do something for Rose. She offered to buy the slave, thinking to then manumit her. Rose's master refused, even when offered a ludicrous amount of money, on religious grounds (he saw through the plan and abhors manumission). He did, however, offer terms of lease for an indefinite period of time, date of termination to be decided by patron. The patron accepted, knowing that Rose would at least be better-treated by the party. She's willing to act to free Rose in defiance of the law of her master's nation, an outright contract, and a very angry and powerful supplier, but thinks that it would be worthless gesture unless Rose is willing to embrace her new freedom instead of running right back to her master. When questioned, it is obvious that Rose ISN'T willing to embrace freedom. She considers even the thought of defying her master to be a sin in Lord Hextor's eyes. She believes that her first duty is to Lord Hextor and his edicts, which in turn command that her second duty is to obey her master, who has ordered that her third duty is to obey her appointed overseers (the patron and the party). Thus if ordered to go against her master by the overseers, she won't, just as if her master had ordered her to defy Lord Hextor. What's worse, such contradictory orders (obey the people telling you to betray me, but don't betray me) get added to her list of failures when she can't pull them off, despite the fact that they're impossible. Rose has been brought up believing that each such failure will result in her being tortured for a year during her afterlife. This is just for failures and mistakes; outright defiance, rebellion, and so forth, would mean eternal damnation. Usually she'll rack up about half a dozen very minor mistakes in the course of the day, cataloging them, confessing them to the party, and then going over them in her daily prayers for mercy. Sometimes she breaks into frustrated tears when the party accidentally tells her to do something she's not allowed to or can't do; sometimes she just explains it in a very, very dead tone of voice. Other quirks of her evil-god-imposed-morality are that as a slave she must always be thankful and grateful for whatever comes her way, never contemplate freedom, always defend her master and overseers from harm, never lie to her master and overseers, obey their orders, not engage in any small acts of defiance such as exploiting loopholes or lies of omission, keep herself from becoming unfit for service, and be as small a burden on her master/overseers as possible. She is allowed to acquire property, but her superiors can demand that she fork it over at any time. One of the things she owns is a fiddle, which, in her free time, she uses as an escape from and an outlet for her misery, playing the most depressing music possible (unless told to stop). If the party members don't want to be accidentally ordering her around left and right, it has to be very, very careful in how they phrase suggestions, questions, or ideas. From time to time, various hints slip out about brutal treatment in her past, such as her involuntary flinches whenever she thinks a party member might strike her, or a mention of her children, the oldest of whom she had when she was 13. Rose has been given firm orders not to describe these brutalities, though. She regards each of these slips as mistakes which Hextor will punish. Dead souls go to whichever god they worshiped; in this case, Hextor. So the evaluation of consequences in her afterlife is quite accurate, if He chooses to follow through.
What would you do?
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Post by HorizonsDream on Sept 5, 2006 20:11:08 GMT -8
This one is a bit tough. I'm thinking of along the lines that if the girl doesn't want to be helped, then don't bother to help her, though I don't think someone should live their life in fear like that. Perhaps there is away to convince her that there is another religion out there that she can believe in. One that doesn't treat their followers so harshly. If they could convince her of that and she changed her belief's, she wouldn't have to worry about being punished by Hextor because her soul would go to the other God if there is another God to follow.
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Post by Daos on Sept 5, 2006 20:16:55 GMT -8
Ah, but remember, even if you could convince her that Hextor won't punish her for 'betraying' him, she would also be defying her master in changing religions.
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Post by HorizonsDream on Sept 5, 2006 23:44:01 GMT -8
She should be defying her master. She is being offered freedom, something she has never had the chance to really taste before. If they can give her a taste of freedom and a life without living in fear, then perhaps it is worth the effort.
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Post by Daos on Sept 6, 2006 9:10:43 GMT -8
Only assuming that the idea of freedom is universal. Rose has been brought up this way her entire life. It's the only way she knows. To entertain such a thought, she would catalogue it as another sin to add to her time in their equivalent of Purgatory. Remember:
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Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
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Post by Shannon on Sept 6, 2006 10:17:32 GMT -8
It seems that the only way to really get through to Rose is to live by showing, not telling. The party has to make an effort to show Rose that there is an alternative to living as she currently lives. You start off little, by getting Rose to make small choices based on what she wants, and go from there. "What would you like to eat tonight, Rose? Why don't you pick?" You start by showing Rose that she does have choices to make, and slowly work her up to the larger choices.
Ultimately, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. All the party can really do is open new doors for her and be supportive of her.
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Post by Daos on Sept 9, 2006 11:22:22 GMT -8
I agree, Shannon. Forcing a new lifestyle and religion upon her in anyway would not only traumatize her further, it'd make you as bad as her master.
Here's another:
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The situation is as follows. Jinnil, a CG halfling Thief, has been adventuring with LN human Cleric Jupe for a while now. Jupe is strict in his beliefs and his decisions, so it hasn't always been fun for Jinnil. Still, he sticks with the tense human because Jupe has a talent for finding adventures, with an emphasis on powerful evils to defeat. Jinnil likes defeating evil. In the course of their travels, Jupe receives information about a family that is apparently being plagued by a master vampire. He takes Jinnil to the family home, a sprawling mansion in a state of slight disrepair, almost a day's travel from the nearest town. When Jupe and Jinnil arrive at the house, they find only one woman and her baby still living there.
The woman is Ravina Durst, the baby is her daughter Clara. When Jupe tells her why he came, she confirms that yes, her family has had a vampire problem for many years. But not the way that Jupe apparently thinks; rather than attacking and feeding on the family, the vampire has simply always been ... around. Wherever the family moved, the vampire would follow, killing cattle and battling any impressive people in the area for sport. This has not made the family very popular at all, though they haven't suffered as much as they might have; attempts to kill the Durst family failed because the vampire would send armies of rats and dogs against the family's opponents, their families, their businesses and their homes until they relented.
Now Ravina and Clara are the last surviving members of the family - that Ravina knows - and she's hoping the tide will turn when the Durst family name disappears completely. After all, should Clara marry, there is an end to the patriarchal line and the vampire might lose the trail. Jupe demands to see the family records to find an explanation for the vampire's presence. If at all possible, he wants to kill the un-dead menace off immediately, if not sooner. Jinnil tags along in order to stave off boredom.
A couple of hours of combing through the family records brings some startling information to light; Jupe is fairly sure that the vampire is, in fact, a Durst himself! A fragment of a record indicates that centuries ago, Maximilian Durst fell under the bleak shadow of undeath -- and his father failed to kill him. Jupe next finds one of Maximilian's journals. The last entry says: "The blood is the life. It is the embrace of my mother, the discipline of my father. So long as the blood flows, it nurtures and supports me. Should the blood fail, so shall I."
At this point, Jupe says he wants to go to the bathroom and encourages Jinnil to keep looking. Jinnil does, simply out of boredom -- and finds a secret door that has apparently been forgotten. Behind the door, he finds what is apparently the lair of Maximilian Durst ...! There's a coffin, a sword rack, a closet holding clothes, and a stack of journals. Scanning through a few of these, Jinnil finds that Maximilian has, indeed, been trailing his relatives. Trailing them -- and watching over them! 'The blood is the life,' the vampire writes, 'and my Blood allowed me to keep on existing. I must repay them somehow for that gift.' He refers to his battles with impressive people as attempts to stave off the boredom of undeath. He also notes how difficult it is to watch over his living relatives without turning against them; it gets harder with each passing year. Right then, Jinnil hears the sound of battle coming from outside. Rushing to the library window, he sees Jupe outside, swinging his mace at a pale man in dark clothes who uses a rapier. The vampire Maximilian Durst has arrived! The little halfling runs to the room where Ravina and Clara Durst were last seen, only to find carnage. Ravina is dead, her skull bashed in with a blunt object; Clara is not in her cradle. Believing that Maximilian has finally snapped and killed the living Dursts, Jinnil runs outside to do battle.
The scene before him is confusing and horrifying; although Maximilian is unhurt, there is blood on Jupe's heavy, spiked mace. And Maximilian is fighting one-handed; in his off arm, he is cradling baby Clara. In fact the vampire seems to be looking for a way to break off combat without allowing Jupe a chance to strike him.
"Backstab the monster, Jinnil!" Jupe orders when he spots the halfling. "We only have to kill the baby and the undead stain of this one will be gone from the world forever!" So now what ...? What would you do? What would your character do? And what should Jinnil do?
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Post by HorizonsDream on Sept 9, 2006 19:19:46 GMT -8
I think this is a bit of an overkill. We don't really know for sure that if the family dies out that the vampire will die as well. It seems more logical to me that the vampire would most likely die without the family dying too. The priest doesn't seem to think that way, as he just seemed to jump in there and start killing without a second thought.
I would end up helping the vampire protect the baby because there just is not enough information on this whole situation honestly. I don't think someone should just jump to conclusions on whatever the vampire said. Just because the vampire believes it does not make it true. It just be investigated before killing anyone.
I realize the vampire is evil and such, but a whole family shouldn't have to die because of one vampire. They are innocent in all of this, especially the baby and that baby shouldn't be punished for something it doesn't have any control over.
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Post by Daos on Sept 9, 2006 19:26:44 GMT -8
Remember, I technically I asked three questions. What should Jinnil do (a CG halfling thief), what would your character do, and what would you do? Consider it an exercise in understanding how alignment works.
You're probably right that a little further investigation before jumping into things would have been better. But what's done is done. Ravina is dead, and Jupe is fighting a vampire (CE) that is holding baby Clara.
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