|
Post by Daos on Sept 20, 2006 13:06:39 GMT -8
Yes, the scenario did say that there is another Earth ship about 50 light years away. It would take five weeks for the message to reach them (assuming they had not moved on by that point, anyway).
In the original thread, I gave my own response, and the author of the scenario admitted he hadn't considered the possibility before. I proposed the crew rigged up a small probe and dropped it away from their ship, then activate it. The probe would transmit friendly messages (which the aliens, with their rather massive communication system, would no doubt easily pick up). If the aliens are unreasonable, they'll most likely blow the probe out of the sky. We'll then know for sure that there's no way to talk them out of this. Then we can consider the suicide bomber method. If, however, the aliens were receptive, we may be able to open up a line of communication and start a dialogue going.
|
|
|
Post by HorizonsDream on Sept 20, 2006 13:13:12 GMT -8
Honestly, that sounds like the best option then.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Sept 24, 2006 12:53:21 GMT -8
The situation is as follows. A small group of adventurers has entered the lair of a lich named Demetrius.
Demetrius originally came from the southern islands, where he rebelled against the royal edicts governing spellcasters. (For reference, he became a Mage/Cleric, when spellcasters were required by law to be either arcane or clerical, not both.) After his rebellion failed, he traveled north and took over a dungeon complex, eventually making the transformation to lich. Since then, he hasn't really budged from his home, but sometimes some of his failed experiments -- weird golems, mostly -- come staggering out and cause lots of damage.
The king has had enough, so he put a bounty on Demetrius's skull. Dwarven Fighter Dougl accepted the challenge; aided by a Pelorite* human cleric named Mandel, a half-elf Sorceress named Virdania and a human Rogue, Balite, he entered the dungeon. For two weeks, the team has been slogging through, passing and/or falling into traps both mechanical and magical, fighting golems of all materials -- except flesh and bone, for some reason -- and running into spells that Demetrius set up to keep out intruders. It's been two weeks of sheer Hell, but finally it has come to an end; the team enters Demetrius's sanctum sanctorum, where they battle the lich in person.
After a great battle, the Demetrius's skeletal body is pounded into dust by Mandel. Virdania is heavily wounded, Dougl is also a bit under the weather. Only Mandel and Balite are still on their feet. The Rogue immediately starts searching Demetrius's things, while Mandel limps to Virdania to inspect her injuries. Balite soon comes back, carrying a metal Staff which he's apparently looted.
"How she doing?" Balite asks.
"She'll live," Mandel assures him, "but not if I don't get a few Cure prayers and a Neutralize Poison in her soon. Demetrius got her good."
"Nice to know," Balite says. "And Dougl?"
"A bit better off, but he needs help as well," Mandel replies. "You're lucky you dodged that Poison Spray spell and that I was protected by Pelor. We'd all be dead, otherwise."
"Yup, lucky," Balite confirms -- and performs a backstab on Mandel while the cleric's back is turned. Mandel falls dead to the ground and Balite sneers at his former companions. "The Dark Matter will be highly pleased to receive this weapon," he informs them, patting the Staff. He then tosses a metal sphere to the ground, twists a ring on his finger and teleports away.
The sphere starts to glow and make ticking noises. With her waning strength, Virdania manages to cast her last spell -- moments later, she, Dougl and Mandel's corpse appear just outside the exit of Demetrius's lair. There's a loud rumbling from inside, clearly from an explosion, and dust comes billowing out.
Dougl crawls to Mandel and starts to say a prayer to the human's deity even as he searches him for some potion that may save him and Virdania -- when the corpse opens its eyes and glares at him.
"Scarlet tresses of Wee Jas**, will you get off!" the corpse says, its eyes starting to glow scarlet even while it pushes Dougl away. It's Demetrius, none too pleased. "Nice going, nimrod," he sneers down at Dougl. "Why couldn't you just leave me in peace? Now that thief has my splendid invention." He steams and fumes for a bit, then says: "Well, I'll have to get it back. But you jerks destroyed my golems and my workshop was just blown up and buried under tons of rock. I don't like using fleshies as a rule, but you're all that's on offer. So I'll make you a deal; I'll cure you both, neutralize the poison in your veins, and guide you to my Staff. I imagine you'd like to get back at that assassin, yes? I don't care what you do to him, I just want my Staff back. Keep anything else he stole from my chambers. Or you can refuse, and I'll just wait until you're dead. Like I said, I don't like using fleshies, but I can animate your corpses just fine." __________________________________________ Were you in Dougl's shoes, what would you do? And what would be the right thing for him to do?
*Pelor - Greyhawk god of light and healing **Wee Jas - Greyhawk goddess of death, magic, law, and vanity
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Sept 30, 2006 16:00:29 GMT -8
Aww, c'mon? Is this thread really dead? I was enjoying it.
|
|
Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
|
Post by Shannon on Sept 30, 2006 18:20:10 GMT -8
Well, let's hear what you think of the last senario then. ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Sept 30, 2006 18:30:08 GMT -8
Well, if they refuse to help, they'll die and be reanimated. So I would agree to help the lich. Although evil, if he does worship Wee Jas, I can bet that he won't break his word (LE). However, just to be safe, I would try and have a back-up plan in mind. Especially after the lich recovers the staff--when he wouldn't need me anymore.
|
|
Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
|
Post by Shannon on Sept 30, 2006 19:42:41 GMT -8
That was one thing I didn't really get. The bad guy said that he didn't like working with "fleshies." Does that mean he'd just make them into some sort of flesh golem?
But, yes. I'd probably agree to go along with him, too, even though I wouldn't feel right about making that sort of decision for the others.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Sept 30, 2006 19:45:35 GMT -8
For reasons that were not given, the lich doesn't seem to like working with organic material. That's why the story noted that when the party was in his lair, they encountered many different types of golems, but not flesh or bone golems. The lich also doesn't seem to like undead, either (other than himself, perhaps).
I suppose the reason for this was to give him motivation to keep the party alive. Otherwise, it would beg the question, why even bother? Why not just kill them and animate them? So he could turn them into zombies, but he doesn't like 'fleshies', so he's given them the option.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Oct 17, 2006 15:30:42 GMT -8
Here's one with an interesting little twist. The twist being that this is something actually happening to me right now in the pbp I play in!
Glenn Lonerock is a humble paladin of Bahamut, God of Good Dragons, and servant of all that is good and true. Hearing rumors that goblins may be raiding local farms, he decides to investigate. He hires three mercenaries to help him: Pragner (human fighter), Rudyik (human mage), and Mook (halfling thief).
Pragner knows of a dwarven caravan passing by soon, and he suggests the party finds and joins it, as they will be traveling the same path the party will, and this will give us safety in numbers.
However, upon finding the caravan, it is besieged by goblins. The two have fought each other to a stand-still, and the party just happens to come up behind the goblins.
The party attacks from behind as the dwarves attack from the front, forming a pincer attack. Although several dwarves die and the party is reduced to single digit HP, all but four goblins are slain (the four living ones were knocked out by Rudyik's sleep spell. The dwarves are very grateful. They ask the party to continue with them for the rest of their trip for protection, and Glenn agrees to this without hesitation.
The dwarves, understandably, want blood for blood and begin readying to slay the surviving goblins. Glenn, however, convinces their leader to allow him to interrogate them.
Three of the goblins are quite tight-lipped, but one spills some info on the promise that Glenn will let him free in return.
Now here's the problem.
If Glenn kills the goblin or allows the dwarves to kill him, then he has broken his promise. And what good is a paladin's word if he cannot uphold it?
However, the dwarves may not listen to reason and attempt to kill the goblin anyway. Surely he cannot draw a sword against the people he saved in order to spare one of the enemy.
What should Glenn do? You be the judge.
|
|
Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
|
Post by Shannon on Oct 17, 2006 15:47:23 GMT -8
Glenn made a promice to the goblin, and, now, he has to keep it. If he has to draw a sword against the people he just saved, then, that's the breaks. He can't break a promice on what "might" happen. Since he gave his word, now he has to go to every extent to keep it.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Oct 17, 2006 16:24:08 GMT -8
Even though the goblin is evil but the dwarves are good? Arguably, wouldn't attacking the dwarves to save the goblin possibly cost him his paladinhood just as much as breaking his word?
|
|
Shannon
Advanced
Firerain
Posts: 402
|
Post by Shannon on Oct 17, 2006 16:33:47 GMT -8
If the dwarves are good, it shouldn't be too hard to convince them to forsake vengance on this one goblin.
I don't know. I think that the whole class situation in D&D is flawed, because, as pointed out on the Official New Dawn thread that evil people can do good things, We also get back into the old arguement of, if a paladin detects evil randomly, and finds a 10 year old to be evil, does he just slay him right then and there?
On the same token, in the strictest sense of the word, killing people is evil. There are some schools of thought that would say that killing people is evil, no matter their "alignment", or their intentions. If you want to get right down to it, paladins could be considered evil because they kill, instead of attempting to reform evil.
In the end, it's all just words, and all it boils down to is how well you can justify it at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Oct 17, 2006 16:54:32 GMT -8
That's sort of the point. Alignment is not clear-cut or black and white. To say, "Well, if he's GOOD, he'll do THIS or if he's EVIL he would never do THIS," is to attempt to narrow the definition of all alignments to fit into neat little packages.
Hence why these little stories contain so many details and much backstory. If I were to have just said, "Should the LG paladin kill the NE goblin?" then the question is too easy and clear-cut. Sure, why shouldn't he?
But generally for evil purposes. For instance, an evil person may join the New Dawn to help them in their fight against the Overlord, but only because he wants to be the new Overlord himself. Although he is doing something that might be considered good now, his intentions are selfish.
The sad thing is, there are many who would say 'yes.' This is a school of thought becoming more prevalent in 3E, especially with the invention of a paladin's "smite evil" ability. I always believed that smiting should be a last resort. Is this ten year old boy actually a threat to anyone? I mean, he could be a demon in disguise, but then maybe he's just a youth who's on the wrong road of life and can be redeemed.
Most cultures make a distinction between killing and murder. Although our own culture claims that murder is wrong, we obviously make exceptions for war, capital punishment, and self-defense.
|
|
Airellian
Elite
Sunny Greenhaven
Posts: 1,284
|
Post by Airellian on Jan 31, 2007 8:39:14 GMT -8
Glenn shouldn't have made a promise he probably knew he couldn't keep, especially since these goblins just attacked the dwarves, and he knew the dwarves would want blood when questioning the goblins, but gave his word anyway. Plus, he just offered his protection to the dwarves prior to making the promise with the goblin.
If he loses his paladin status because he wants to keep his word to the goblin, who probably would have killed Glenn as well, then that's squarely on his shoulders. I mean, that is if the goblins attacked first, which I'm assuming is the case because you can't really make an attack from a caravan.
If Glenn takes his promise of protection seriously, then he must consider the fact that anyone will say anything to avoid death, and this goblin could have friends and continue to raid in the future. It's a flimsy argument, I know, but the only thing he can do is reason with the dwarves to allow the goblin to live. If he attacks the dwarves to defend his promise with the goblin, then he has reneged on his promise with the dwarves. I would put priority with the dwarves simply because he gave his word to them first, and they were not the ones who provoked the attack.
Also, I'd make the paladin atone for being so stupid. A paladin should not make promises he cannot keep. Especially when someone's life depends on that promise.
|
|
|
Post by Daos on Jan 31, 2007 14:16:02 GMT -8
Make the paladin atone? Even if the decision is unwise, generally paladins are made to atone for committing chaotic or evil acts.
Anyway, here's what actually happened:
Glenn made his promise to the goblin, who's name was Jeebjeeb. Jeebjeeb explained the goblins had been organized by someone named "Kharrn", although he was too terrified to really explain who or what Kharrn was. He also made mention of where this Kharrn could be found.
After extracting this information, Glenn spoke to the dwarves' leader, making sure to mention how he and his men saved them all in the process. Although unhappy, the dwarves agreed to let Jeebjeeb go.
Glenn took Jeebjeeb and escorted him a short distance from the battlefield (while the dwarves slaughtered the remaining ones). After they reached their destination, Glenn cut Jeebjeeb's bonds and talked to him. He told him he was leaving him weaponless and without food or water. He explained he was putting Jeebjeeb's life into the hands of the gods. Glenn promised to save him from the dwarves, but not from the elements. He also explained that if he returned to Kharrn or his tribe, he would be considered a traitor and most likely killed.
He also asked Jeebjeeb to consider his past actions of greed and evil, and if they were really worth the trouble it's brought into his life. He asked to consider whether a life of virtue and helping people would not be better for him. With these last words, Glenn sent the goblin off. With one last look over his shoulder, Jeebjeeb scurried away.
So while the whole thing was a big gamble that could have ended messily, in the end Glenn got some valuable information, a new lead on his mission, and may have possibily made a convert (although I suppose what became of Jeebjeeb will never be known now).
|
|