D&D Discussion

[GreyWolfVT]

Oct 28, 2019 14:42:58 GMT -8 Daos said:

Yeah, a bee swarmkeeper would be cool, as would an ant one.  I like the idea of the butterfly and firefly ones, too, so they aren't all creepy or grim.

No not at all creepy just unique. Summon insects or swarm would be a lot quicker no spell required. 

[Daos]

Check out what came in the mail yesterday:



Can't wait to get started on it.

[GreyWolfVT]

Nice! That looks sweet!

[Daos]

Yeah, it's very nice.  Brand new.  In fact, when I first opened it, the spine of the cover resisted it slightly, suggesting the book was not used to being opened.  The paper smells so fresh.  And the artwork looks amazing.

[GreyWolfVT]

Just the cover artwork alone looked nice to me, then again I do really like the artwork by most all WoTC artists. Though some of the old school D&D art is quite good as well.

[Daos]

Here's some of the artwork found inside:

[GreyWolfVT]

Nice i love the dragon ones.

[Daos]

The Rune Knight, which is a Fighter who uses Giantish runes to enhance their fighting ability.  Pretty interesting, if this had been an option when my fighter reached level 3, I would have considered it.  Ultimately I went with Champion, though.

[Daos]

I thought this was funny.

I can relate.  I once had a group who refused to leave the starting inn, too, but it was less out of paranoia and more due to a complete lack of initiative or agency of any kind.

[GreyWolfVT]

Wow I have never had that type of occurrence as of yet. That is crazy I would for sure make something a mimic in that starting inn/tavern. Maybe then they'd move or on perish and have to start in a new place maybe an outdoor starting place.

[Rax]

Me neither, but it's as good an argument for starting a game in media res as any. Straight to the action!

[Daos]

Well, I think that's what they were waiting for--something to happen.  A monster attack, a wizened old man approaching them with a job, etc.  The thing was, this particular game was a total sandbox.  This had been stressed when they signed up; that everything would be directed by the players themselves.  Despite this, they were content to just sit around and wait for something to happen so they could react to it.  They wouldn't take initiative themselves.  (Eventually I did have to step in and make things happen for them, though.)

Ever since then, I've avoided starting any game in a tavern.

[Rax]

Fortunately, that's not been a problem in any IRL group I've been in. Everyone has always accepted that they're there to adventure, so they've either obligingly accepted a quest or gone looking for trouble on their own. Even so, when I last GM:ed I often preferred to start straight in on the action, with the PCs already having accepted their first quest. Spending time hanging about a tavern felt like a waste of time in most cases - any information a quest giver was going to impart could just as easily be given OOC by me as GM.

With that said, I do feel that a "total sandbox" is among the more difficult setups. Above all, it can be hard to get things moving if the players don't understand (or think they understand) what choices are open to them. They don't just need to be motivated to take action on their own, they need a truckload of information to make the right choices to get things started.

[GreyWolfVT]

Yeah see sandbox I have had a hard time keeping it going but usually to get the group onto something I have almost always had to throw a NPC in to give them a hint as to where to locate an adventure or simply I just say there is a signboard in the center of town with jobs and other opportunities posted. Or have some odd rumor or gossip that might lead the PC's to seek out something as a lead to an adventure. Can't say it is always fool proof but hell had a group (back when RL games for me still happened) that sort of made an adventure happen from nothing. Group arrives in a town splits up to run their own little errands or stock up whatever, and naturally the half-orc fighter decides i want to hit up the local brothel, needless to say he gets into trouble ends up in jail and the group has to break him out and flee from the town. This eventually led them to stubble into an adventure. 

[Daos]

RAX:  Even so, when I last GM:ed I often preferred to start straight in on the action, with the PCs already having accepted their first quest.

I've noticed the newer modules tend to do this.  Lost Mines of Phandelver starts with the party having already accepted the job and them being en route to their destination.    Tyranny of Dragons has a similar thing, where the party is just minding their own business, when suddenly stuff goes down and they're sort of swept up in it.  It probably does save some time, as it assumes the party have all met each other by that point (even if they don't know each other well).

GREYWOLFVT:  ...I have almost always had to throw a NPC in to give them a hint as to where to locate an adventure or simply I just say there is a signboard in the center of town with jobs and other opportunities posted. Or have some odd rumor or gossip that might lead the PC's to seek out something as a lead to an adventure.

Yeah, I notice that when players do take initiative in a sandbox, that's usually what they do--head into a tavern, find someone with an exclamation mark over their head, and start asking for jobs.  Or a job posting board.  And not even being picky about it.  Accept all quests, regardless of what they are.  Sure, I'll bring you back 8 wolf pelts, whatever!

I don't know, I guess that's fine...if their only intent is make some quick cash or something.  In my mind, though a sandbox isn't just going into a random town, picking up all the quests, completing them, then moving on to the next town.  That's basically Skyrim.  A sandbox should have a story, just one that is basically created and driven by the players themselves.

Like, if your backstory is that the six-fingered man killed your father and you are seeking revenge, great!  How do you do that?  Do you ask around town, do you do some research?  And, sure, maybe you do take a few random jobs on the way, to build up your funds or hone your fighting skills in anticipation for the day when you finally track him down.  But in my experience, a lot of players will just assume that one day they'll cross paths randomly.  They seem to expect the DM to deliver the six-fingered man on a platter at some point, and they can just fart around until then.

You ever have a player like that?  That has no agency, no goals, no agenda.  They just go along with whatever the rest of the group is doing.  An adventure is an adventure, right?  Doesn't matter why.  Questioning them on why they are doing something (in character or out of character) just serves to highlight how little investment they have in it all.

Basically, I once had an entire party of those.  Which is why it stalled out like that.  Everyone was waiting for someone else to do something first.  It was like an accidental study of the Bystander Effect.  Eventually one player did take the lead, and the entire campaign was basically just about completing her own goals, while everyone else just tagged along.  When all of that one character's goals were completed...we just went ahead and ended the game there, because nobody else had anything else they wanted to do.